I've never found an equation - its always been a ruler or a drawing. It has the biggest influence on the steering's self centering feel. Sketched up the wheel/upright on a piece of poster board and ended up with a scrub radius of 5/8", so that's good... Next up is making a 1/2 scale string computer out of some thin wood, then playing around with roll centers and pick up points... Yep, I was mistaken. print to the axle centre is called Scrub or Scrub radius. Torque steer sets in and a considerable amount of kickback is felt. The scrub radius can affect the way the steering responds in both a straight line and during cornering. The scrub radius is the distance on the ground between the centerline of the tire contact patch and the point at which the SAI intersects the ground. I know that the base Civic wheels are something like 17 or 16x7 w/ 45mm offset. If the extrapolated KPI is outboard of the contact patch then the scrub radius is negative. My actual upper kingpin is at 17-5/8" above ground (measured 14-3/8" to axle centerline plus 3-1/8" for half knuckle height) The scrub radius is the distance in front view between the kingpin axis and the center of the contact patch of the wheel, where both would theoretically touch the road. When viewing a wheel from front view, the scrub radius is the distance between where the extrapolated line of kingpin axis touches the road and the tyre contact patch centre point. I am building a hub center steering sidecar rig, and needed a zero scrub radius spindle. Figure shows the kingpin geometry. The biggest effect is called bump steer. Keeping scrub radius small will make the car easier to handle at low speeds. Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together! I've done my own calculations as far as putting really wide wheels on my car and found the offsets should be a lot higher for "proper" fitment. If it is inboard then the scrub radius is positive. While the 3-D nature of the geometry involved means that (effectively) rotating the knuckle in side-view means the steering axis in front-view will change because the cosine of the caster angle changes, the angles involved are (or should be) small, which means the cosine of that angle is a pretty good approximation of 1. … level 2. When viewing a wheel from front view, the scrub radius is the distance between where the extrapolated line of kingpin axis touches the road and the tyre contact patch centre point. The Miata was the only one I … If these two lines intersect at ground level, then you are said to have zero scrub. If these two lines intersect at ground level, then you are said to have zero scrub. That should be an imperceptible change. Usually when talking about scrub radius the topic is handling on the track. While scrub radius plays a part in handling, it's not much. The thing is, I know this will alter the scrub radius (beside other things like bearing load, etc) and after reading something about this I didn't came to a certain conclusion regarding how this will affect the handling of a clio (182 cup suspension with 16" ET 37 wheels I … Las cotizaciones no provienen de todos los mercados y pueden tardar hasta 20 minutos en aparecer. 88 Audi Quatro, 91 Honda Accord, 94 Nissan Sentra, 98 VW Jetta, 02 VW Jetta, 08 Mazda 6, ( not listed , Bikes , Trucks or Vans ) This will affect how the tire contact patch interacts with the road during cornering, braking, and acceleration, and can cause unique toe characteristics depending on the design. Scroll down and select " Scrub Radius Left ", " Scrub Radius Right ", " Tire Contact Patch Width Left " and/or " Tire... Click Apply This assumes that the stock wheel is roughly a 28.9x9.3r15, with a stock wheel that has a … Algunas características de Excel no se pueden mostrar en Hojas de cálculo de Google, por lo que se perderán si haces cambios. The steering gear and linkage or the rack and pinion connects the tie rods to the steering knuckles. Get the forces to the drivers liking using as little scrub radius as possible. Tire height is reduced below the axle by deformation. About us. To find my actual scrub radius, I need to combine that triangle with another triangle. ... Any idea on how to calculate it using the forces and moments that are given as output? People who say wheel ET (=offset) should be changed to lower value for wider tyres to fit comfortably - they have no idea of scrub radius phenomena. NOTE: Scrub Radius is defined as the point of intersection of the king pin angle (a line drawn through the upper and lower ball joints and the mid line plane (steering plane) of the wheel (tire). To calculate the radius of a circle by using the circumference, take the circumference of the circle and divide it by 2 times π. Β F. Where: j = Distance between steering axles (mm) I kt = Wheelbase center to center (mm) s = Track or whele to wheel center width (mm) r o = Scrub radius (mm) the distance in front view between the king pin axis and the center of the contact patch of the wheel, where both would theoretically touch the road. This wheel is about three pounds lighter than the 20-inch wheel, so … A positive scrub radius tends to be beneficial while braking into a turn. We only really have scrub to fit things in the wheel easier. Yes it is. Contents. With a small amount of scrub radius, the tire is turned about the kingpin axis, slightly offset from the tire’s centerline. I've done my own calculations as far as putting really wide wheels on my car and found the offsets should be a lot higher for "proper" fitment. It could be positive, negative or zero. If the extrapolated KPI is outboard of the contact patch then the scrub radius is negative. Actívalo y vuelve a cargarlo. If they meet at the ground surface the scrub radius is Zero. Enter as much or as little information as you like and the calculator will validate the data then apply it … The distance between the centerline of the tire and where this line meets the ground is your scrub radius. 3 comments. Picture two imaginary lines, one represents the steering axis, and the other represents your wheel’s centerline. The OP, by his post, does understand the effect of the gross change to the scrub and probably any detrimental effect of steering all for looks. Torque due to … In brief - to maintain oem scrub radius, keep to original ET value, but feel free to bolt on a wider wheel if such is felt to be a necessity. I know that the base Civic wheels are something like 17 or 16x7 w/ 45mm offset. While scrub radius plays a part in handling, it's not much. I am currently running zero 'Scrub Radius'on the front wheels of my Cobra. View unanswered posts | View active topics, Board index » The North American Locost Forums » Running Gear - Suspension, Brakes, Steering, wheels and tires, Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 12 guests. We only really have scrub to fit things in the wheel easier. Hence a small scrub radius will make the car less sensitive to changes in steering when braking. 3. The main advantage is improved feedback and road feel. Ive been experimenting with wheel offsets to a.) The thing is, I know this will alter the scrub radius (beside other things like bearing load, etc) and after reading something about this I didn't came to a certain conclusion regarding how this will affect the handling of a clio (182 cup suspension with 16" … The scrub radius is shown at the bottom at.427”. Here is the 'mathy' part. share. 3. Hello friend and welcome to racingaspirations.com - the home of some of the best visual motorsport calculators I believe you will find on the internet and all available to try for as long as you like free of charge. About us. It is only referred to as positive or negative. save. It also reduces the risk, that a lose of traction on one front wheel during braking, causes the car to change direction. Recently I realized that changing the wheel offsets (or using spacers) to adjust the track width affects the scrub radius (a.k.a. The distance from the kingpin axis to the wheel centre plane measured horizontally at axle height is called Spindle length. strimmer Forum Member. Get the forces to the drivers liking using as little scrub radius as possible. On a RWD car, even if the tyre loads are equal, tyre drag will tend to load the wheels toward toe-out with a positive scrub radius (usual) or toe-in with a negative scrub radius. It is much easier to measure from a picture. I use these calculators to develop my own car and you can follow my progress as well as the practical application of the calculators within my blog. My guess after running the numbers and reading some information about front end geometry and steering stability that +3” is a whole crap load and it’s going to create a much more exciting ride but in a bad way. report. So my question is, how much does 2mm affect the scrub radius, or the potential of increasing bearing wear, etc. This means there is less than half an inch between the king pin inclination line and the tire center line where the tire contacts the road. Simulating on Lotus and using hit and trial method you can check that at which angle you are getting your correct suspension and steering geometry . We strive to help you get the information you need about PCD, offset, rims and all other wheel and tire … The smaller the scrub radius is the less feedback to the wheel you get. Seems very close to what you're getting. Scrub Radius- this is the tires turning radius about the steering axis. 68 Fiat 850 coupe, 69 Mustang, 70 Volvo 142, 70 Mazda R100, 72 Volvo 142E, 73 Mazda RX3, 74 Olds Cutlass, 74 Ford Capri, 79 Plymouth Fire Arrow, 81 Mazda Rx7, 82 Chevy Chevette, 85 VW golf, 85 Mazda RX7 GLSE, 88 Toyota Tercel Hatch. The caster is a side-view issue. If you make the scrub radius large enough you induce large moments (torque) while braking that (maybe) could cause fatigue in the suspension elements but I've never heard of a … The larger the scrub radius is the more feedback and shock load you get. It is the intersection of the line drawn through the upper and lower ball joints and the centerline of the wheel. https://autosystempro.com/scrub-radius-suspension-design-explained I've searched high and low, but can't seem to find out how everyone is calculating their scrub radius. Se ha producido un error en el navegador. The scrub radius can affect the way the steering responds in both a straight line and during cornering. I now get a scrub radius of .65 inches. 2"| Page" Figure"2:Less caster,lesscaster"lead " " Figure2b:Greatercaster,greatercasterlead % When%cornering,% Z Á ] P Z v } v ] v P P [ } u ] v } Z } v ] v P ( } X d Z } v ] v P A large scrub radius gives lighter steering because the tires can roll in an arc as the steering wheel is turned. La información se proporciona "tal cual", y solamente con un propósito informativo, no con objetivos comerciales ni de asesoramiento. Former oldies. I am building a hub center steering sidecar rig, and needed a zero scrub radius spindle. Last year I bought a new 2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara. Scrub radius for first generation (the only ones I have experience with) Miata spindles is ZERO. Running Gear - Suspension, Brakes, Steering, wheels and tires, http://www.pbase.com/ninerjoe/lotus_19_build, It is currently January 17, 2021, 9:22 am. On a RWD car, even if the tyre loads are equal, tyre drag will tend to load the wheels toward toe-out with a positive scrub radius (usual) or toe-in with a negative scrub radius. Scrub radius for first generation (the only ones I have experience with) Miata spindles is ZERO. The location of the steering gear linkage or rack can have a profound effect on how the vehicle handles. If it is inboard then the scrub radius is positive. ... Any idea on how to calculate it using the forces and moments that are given as output? The steering gear and linkage or the rack and pinion connects the tie rods to the steering knuckles. The caster is a side-view issue. Wheel-Size.com is a Wheel Guide and catalogue. This assumes that the stock wheel is roughly a 28.9x9.3r15, with a stock wheel that has a … Steering axis inclination; Effects of SAI; Scrub radius The scrub radius is a front-view issue. What Is Scrub Radius? The scrub radius of your car can be altered with different wheel offset and suspension design. Scrub radius. For a circle with a circumference of 15, you would divide 15 by 2 times 3.14 and round the decimal point to your answer of … The scrub radius can affect the way the steering responds in both a straight line and during cornering. The scrub radius of your car can be altered with different wheel offset and suspension design. Hence a small scrub radius will make the car less sensitive to changes in steering when braking. Basically, the scrub radius is the Edge A of the small triangle left over, under the ground. If you make the scrub radius large enough you induce large moments (torque) while braking that (maybe) could cause fatigue in the suspension elements but I've never heard of a suspension breaking because of it. Scrub radius is an elusive, almost mythical maiden on the edge of key settings like camber, offset and wheel size, and it’s a key output of the overall equation. 68 Fiat 850 coupe, 69 Mustang, 70 Volvo 142, 70 Mazda R100, 72 Volvo 142E, 73 Mazda RX3, 74 Olds Cutlass, 74 Ford Capri, 79 Plymouth Fire Arrow, 81 Mazda Rx7, 82 Chevy Chevette, 85 VW golf, 85 Mazda RX7 GLSE, 88 Toyota Tercel Hatch. Positive Scrub Radius: Steering effort increases because the wheel has to scrub around a larger contact patch. If the scrub radius is small then the contact patch is spun in place when parking, which takes a lot more effort. A week after purchase, and before I'd really had a chance to drive it stock, I ran out and changed to larger tires and aftermarket wheels at 4 wheel parts in Sherman Oaks. The scrub radius is the distance in front view between the king pin axis and the center of the contact patch of the wheel, where both would theoretically touch the road. The steering gear and linkage or the rack and pinion connects the tie rods to … In my never ending attempt to overthink a problem, I decided to calculate the backspace for a given tire diameter and wheel width to obtain a scrub radius equivalent to the stock configuration. We strive to help you get the information you need about PCD, offset, rims and all other wheel and tire data that you need for … The steering gear and linkage or the rack and pinion connects the tie rods to … Former oldies. 3 comments. The scrub radius is a front-view issue. STRIMMER. Rod end bearings are used on upper and lower control arms (Inner and outer pickups). the amount of wheel offset and the steering axis inclination effect the width of the scrub radius. Advertisement. This is an exmaple of a suspension geometry with positive scrub radius. It could be calculated but the missing dimension in your list is the distance between where the KPI crosses the wheel mounting surface relative to the to the stub axle center. The scrub radius can affect the way the steering responds in both a straight line and during cornering. However, too large of a scrub radius makes the steering very sensitive to … If the scrub radius is zero, then the tire has to be twisted on the ground, and the steering effort is highest. My question is, what effect (if any) will a positive or a negative scrub radius have on the centralising of the steering, whilst moving in a forward direction? Discussion in 'Chassis' started by strimmer, Sep 8, 2010. The Miata was the only one I found, although I believe there are others. If the scrub radius is small then the contact patch is spun in place when parking, which takes a lot more effort. I did mis-read the OP. To visualize scrub radius, stand in front of your car. The scrub radius is the distance between the two, where both touch the road. (Shorter tires than stock increase the scrub radius [ceteris paribus]) This is added to the change in "effective" offset; "effective" because spacers change the perceived offset of the wheel. That is with the stock 14" rim and stock size tire. Wheel-Size.com is a Wheel Guide and catalogue. This creates a small tire/road friction resistance that in turn translates into feedback from the road. SAI is an imaginary line, that on strut suspensions runs through the lower ball joints and the upper end of the strut. In real life, since the tire is compressed at the bottom due to weight, this will increase the scrub radius a bit. More back spacing ( wheel offset) and larger steering angle narrows the scrub radius. Tu navegador no tiene JavaScript activado, por lo cual no se puede abrir este archivo. report. I just added in the correct Miata knuckle measurements (from an NA Miata, I believe that's what you're using?). Scrub radius Last updated January 31, 2020 Zero scrub radius (top) positive scrub radius (center) negative scrub radius (bottom). I used the tire-calculator at Wheel-Size.com to compare the oem set up, (which assumed the oem set up had a zero scrub radius) to the new rims and tires and it calculated the new scrub radius to be positive 21/32″ scrub radius which is approximately 5/8″ or 16.67mm. The calculator does not calculate the absolute scrub radius but it tells the difference between the stock scrub radius for the chosen strut and the scrub radius based on user entered specs for the chosen strut. This is a … 4% : Implementation of all the corrective actions, not only improved steering returnability by 40% but also helped in reducing the cycle time in design … It has the biggest influence on the steering's self centering feel. Keeping scrub radius small will make the car easier to handle at low speeds. From a front view of the car, draw a line between the ball joints and make it intersect the ground. The location of the steering gear linkage or rack can have a … Scrub radius : 10% . How much depends on the tire pressure and corner weight. save. 2"| Page" Figure"2:Less caster,lesscaster"lead " " Figure2b:Greatercaster,greatercasterlead % When%cornering,% Z Á ] P Z v } v ] v P P [ } u ] v } Z } v ] v P ( } X d Z } v ] v P Before using Lotus you should know your Track-width and front Dimension of your frame. Simulating on Lotus and using hit and trial method you can check that at which angle you are getting your correct suspension and steering geometry . Negative Scrub Radius: Most front wheel drive cars use negative scrub radius. So my question is, how much does 2mm affect the scrub radius, or the potential of increasing bearing wear, etc. Joined: Mar 6, 2010 Likes Received: 2 Location: On the limits of adhesion. In my never ending attempt to overthink a problem, I decided to calculate the backspace for a given tire diameter and wheel width to obtain a scrub radius equivalent to the stock configuration. While the 3-D nature of the geometry involved means that (effectively) rotating the knuckle in side-view means the steering axis in front-view will change because the cosine of the caster angle changes, the angles involved are (or should be) small, which means the cosine of that angle is a pretty good approximation of 1. From a front view of the car, draw a line between the ball joints and make it intersect the ground. The kingpin axis is the line between the upper and lower ball joints of the hub. That is with the stock 14" rim and stock size tire. NOTE: Scrub Radius is defined as the point of intersection of the king pin angle (a line drawn through the upper and lower ball joints and the mid line plane (steering plane) of the wheel (tire). Before using Lotus you should know your Track-width and front Dimension of your frame. The scrub radius is the distance on the ground between the centerline of the tire contact patch and the point at which the SAI intersects the ground. To calculate, it uses trig and the spindle angle of the strut and the change in tire height to calculate the change in scrub radius from this. Scrub Radius - posted in The Technical Forum Archive: One of my hobby cars is an old (1970) Lola formula ford. Scrub radius is the distance at the road surface between the tire line and the steering axis inclination (SAI) line extended downward through the steering axis. If they meet at the ground surface the scrub radius is Zero. share. Braking in turn Steering effort : Scrub radius . Fig.4 Kingpin Inclination Front and Side View Note: … Scrub radius, to my knowledge, cannot be calculated to an exact number. Thanks scrub radius calculator from tiresize! Copy of Scrub Radius Prompt 5,20,8.5,60 Inner,Outer,total Inner Rim Diameter (inches),Rim Width (inches),Offset (mm),Tire Width (mm),Sidewall,Spacer (mm),Select Strut,Rim Backspace (mm),Hub to Rim Edge(mm),Effective Offset (mm),Tire Height (mm),Tire Height (inch),Scrub radius … widen the track, and b.) hide. hide. Positive scrub is generally preferred in racing. bias the lateral weight distribution. The distance between where the SLA and the centerline to the wheel intersect the ground is called the scrub radius. 88 Audi Quatro, 91 Honda Accord, 94 Nissan Sentra, 98 VW Jetta, 02 VW Jetta, 08 Mazda 6, ( not listed , Bikes , Trucks or Vans ) Scrub radius helps this feel by providing feedback from the contact patch. The scrub radius is the distance in front view between the king pin axis and the center of the contact patch of the wheel, where both would theoretically touch the road.. The other side of this is I am not sure how much going from 0 scrub radius to +3” of positive scrub radius really affects things. level 2. The distance between where the SLA and the centerline to the wheel intersect the ground is called the scrub radius. The distance between the centerline of the tire and where this line meets the ground is your scrub radius. It also reduces the risk, that a lose of traction on one front wheel during braking, causes the car to change direction. Braking in turn Directional stability Scrub radius : 2% . The scrub radius would only go down by 1 mm. Radius gives lighter steering because the tires can roll in an arc as the steering 's centering... Main advantage is improved feedback and road feel by how to calculate scrub radius feedback from the contact patch to a. real... Affects the scrub radius is shown at the bottom due to weight, this will increase scrub! Said to have zero scrub radius between where the SLA and the other represents your ’! Excel no se puede abrir este archivo that in turn translates into feedback the... Wheel you get that the base Civic wheels are something like 17 or w/. Providing feedback from the kingpin axis is the line between the ball joints and make it intersect the ground your... Of my Cobra radius will make the car to change direction by providing feedback from the axis! Size tire offsets ( or using spacers ) to adjust the track width affects the radius. View of the tire is compressed at the ground is your scrub radius of frame! A part in handling, it 's not much Edge a of the car, draw a line between upper! Bottom at.427 ” that the base Civic wheels are something like 17 or 16x7 w/ 45mm offset other. Wheel offsets ( or using spacers ) to adjust the track Seven replicas... together much on... Strut, the top pivot point is the Edge a of the contact patch is spun in place parking!, I need to combine that triangle with another triangle high and low, but ca n't to! 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One of my hobby cars is an exmaple of a suspension geometry with positive scrub radius.! Is called scrub or scrub radius: steering effort is highest activado, por lo que se perderán haces. Is highest intersect the ground is your scrub radius is zero, then you are said to zero! My question is, how much depends on the limits of adhesion spun in place parking! It intersect the ground, and the centerline to the wheel has to scrub around a contact... A picture have experience with ) Miata spindles is zero providing feedback from the contact is. To the wheel offsets to a. responds in both a straight line and during cornering si haces cambios 17... Triangle with another triangle steering gear and linkage or rack can have a profound on... Your scrub radius: 2 % MacPherson strut, the top pivot point is the distance between the joints! Hence a small scrub radius is negative the drivers liking using as little scrub radius, or potential... My hobby cars is an old ( 1970 ) Lola formula ford represents your wheel ’ s centerline small friction. Using the forces to the wheel during how to calculate scrub radius, causes the car, draw a line between the of... It intersect the ground is called scrub or scrub radius as possible geometry with positive scrub radius is shown the.

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